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[personal profile] anteros_lmc
Reading age of sail history and fiction you get used to the almost complete absence of women. You have seek out very specific publications such as Mary Lacey's autobiography The Female Shipwright, Suzanne Stark's Female Tars or David Cordingly's Women Sailors and Sailors' Women to get an impression of the lot of women at sea during the period. While this does rather make me *sigh* I accept it as inevitable feature of the historical narrative of the period. Every so often though you read something where the absence of women that you know were there becomes so obvious that it's startling.

Last month I read David Cordingly's Billy Ruffian, which is a wonderful book, fully deserving of all the praise that has been heaped on it by reviewers. One of the most fascinating chapters comes towards the end, when Bellerophon became the temporary abode of Napoleon on his surrender to the British, prior to his exile on St Helena. Cordingly provides a moving description of the moment Napoleon steps off the French brig Epervier and into the Bellerophon's barge thus handing himself over to his former British enemies.

The sailors helped Countess Bertrand and her three children and Countess Montholon and her child into the barge. General Bertrand and General Savary followed. Napoleon was the last to leave the French brig and step down into the British boat. It was a symbolic moment which was not lost on those present. The Emperor was surrendering to the enemy.

Cordingly illustrates this momentous event with this aquatint by Jean Pierre Marie Jazet from the National Maritime Museum Collection.



It's a lovely illustration but neither hide nor hair can be seen of the countesses or the children. Of course it's unfair to criticise Cordingly for the oversight of a contemporary French artist, but the absence of the countesses and children is striking.

Later Cordingly goes on to describe how Napoleon and his suite were accommodated on board Bellerophon. Captain Maitland had suggested dividing the great after cabin in two, with one half for the Emperor and the other for the women and children. Las Cases, Napoleon's secretary, politely suggested that

"...the Emperor will be better pleased to have the whole of the after-cabin himself, as he is fond of walking about, and will by that means be able to take more exercise."

Maitland agreed to any arrangement that would be most agreeable to Napoleon. Very magnanimous of him to be sure, but it did rather leave me wondering where the women and children went. The wardroom with the officers? The larboard berth with the mids? One can't help wondering, but Cordingly doesn't tell us. Later we discover that Countess Bertrand has been accommodated in the first lieutenant's cabin when Cordingly describes how she attempted to throw herself into the sea from the gun port on hearing that her husband was likely to accompany Napoleon into exile on St Helena.

I hate to criticise David Cordingly as he is one of my favourite naval historians, and one of the few who has actually written about the lives of women at sea, but I couldn't help being struck by these noticeable absences in an otherwise excellent book. So for the record, here are the missing countesses:



Albine de Montholon

Albine de Vassal's marriage to Charles Tristan de Montholon in 1812 was initially opposed by Napoleon as she was regarded as a scheming woman of questionable virtue. She accompanied Napoleon and her husband to St Helena and during her time on the island was rumoured to have had several affairs with British officers and with Napoleon himself, who was reputed to have been the father of her daughter Napoléone. Albine left St Helena in 1819, allegedly after becoming infatuated with Lieutenant Basil Jackson.



Élisabeth Françoise (Fanny) Bertrand

Daughter of the Irish refugee Colonel William Dillon, and cousin of empress Josephine. Fanny has been described as willful and feisty but also appears to have been a woman of principal. She enlisted Josephine and Napoleon to help her find a husband and in 1808 married General Bertrand at their suggestion. The couple appear to have had a happy marriage and Fanny reluctantly accompanied Bertrand into exile on St Helena with their children Napoleon, Henri and Hortense. She later gave birth to a fourth child, Arthur, on the island. During their time on St Helena, Fanny aroused Napoleon's ire by refusing to live with his household at Longwood. Despite their estrangement Fanny was with the exiled Emperor when he died.

For a fascinating article on Albine and Fanny, and their relationship with Napoleon and each other, I can highly recommend John Tyrell's blog post The Ladies of Longwood: Albine de Montholon & Fanny Betrand.

Date: 2012-01-27 10:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ioanite.livejournal.com
Interesting stuff, to be sure. Although, who is that person behind Napoleon, looking out at the viewer? That looks like a woman to me, but I could be wrong.

"Reading age of sail history and fiction you get used to the almost complete absence of women."

Isn't THAT the truth? Every time I watch an age of sail movie (Errol Flynn swashbucklers excluded), I just automatically assume there won't be any women.

Although now you've got me interested...have you made any posts in the past about women at sea? I'd love to read about any women who disguised themselves as men, both because I've always enjoyed that sort of thing and because, well, I have a writerly interest (icon for illustration).

Date: 2012-01-27 11:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
who is that person behind Napoleon, looking out at the viewer? That looks like a woman to me, but I could be wrong.
There is a much larger version of this image on the NMM website which reveals the figure behind Napoleon to be one of Bellerophon's officers.

Isn't THAT the truth? Every time I watch an age of sail movie (Errol Flynn swashbucklers excluded), I just automatically assume there won't be any women.
Almost every ship had women aboard, usually the wives of warrant officers or seamen, but they very rarely appear in either film, literature or contemporary records. In fact Pellew was one of the few Admirals to publicly acknowledge the important role of women in battle, after the Bombardment of Algiers. "British women served at the same guns with their husbands, and during a contest of many hours, never shrank from danger, but animated all around them."

have you made any posts in the past about women at sea?
Not as many as I feel I should have! Anything I have written on this topic is tagged gender. I can highly recommend Stark's Female Tars btw. It's probably the defining book on the subject and it's also highly readable. To my shame I haven't read Cordingly's Women Sailors and Sailors' Women yet. It's been on my bookshelf for over a year along with another one called Iron Men, Wooden Women which is a series of papers on gender and seafaring in the Atlantic world, though it is not exclusive to the age of sail.

Date: 2012-01-27 09:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
Almost every ship had women aboard, usually the wives of warrant officers or seamen, but they very rarely appear in either film, literature or contemporary records.

That aquatint is a splendidly shameless example of women being written out of history.

I note, though, that Jane Austen is one of the few contemporary sources to mention that there were women aborad naval ships - in Persuasion, Mrs Croft describes a number of voyages she's been on with Admiral Croft, and Captain Wentworth has a long discussion about whether women should be allowed on board or not (he takes it for granted that they are, in fact, present, he just thinks they shouldn't be, and the reaction of the other officers is "Wait till he's married, then he'll think differently"). But of course Jane Austen, as everybody knows, only ever wrote about life in tiny country villages and knew nothing about the wider world, so she can be safely disregarded on this topic.

Date: 2012-01-27 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
That aquatint is a splendidly shameless example of women being written out of history.
Isn't it?! It's one of the most blatant examples I've come across recently!

I haven't read much Austen but I did read Persuasion recently and really enjoyed it. Thought I confess I had forgotten the discussions you mentioned.

But of course Jane Austen, as everybody knows, only ever wrote about life in tiny country villages and knew nothing about the wider world, so she can be safely disregarded on this topic.
Would that be the same Jane Austen who happened to live near by to Emma Halstead, nee Pellew, daughter of a certain Admiral Lord Exmouth?

Date: 2012-01-28 06:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
the same Jane Austen who happened to live near by to Emma Halstead, nee Pellew, daughter of a certain Admiral Lord Exmouth

That's the one. The same Jane Austen with brothers in the navy, one of whom became an admiral.

Date: 2012-01-28 06:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Pfffft! What would she know about the navy?!

Date: 2012-01-27 12:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
It strikes me that the Hornblower movies, and even Forrester's books to some extent, are rather short on brave forthright women. (Possibly excepting Kitty.)

But your research shows that they were there.

I have tried to invent some too-- although not at sea. I feel a great respect for the women to let sons and husbands go away to sea. I hope I have showed their quiet courage.

Date: 2012-01-27 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
It strikes me that the Hornblower movies, and even Forrester's books to some extent, are rather short on brave forthright women. (Possibly excepting Kitty.)
Kitty is great but otherwise....hmmm....I like Lady Barbara, particularly in The Happy Return but she becomes rather two dimensional. Maria I find deeply troubling, I'm really quite uncomfortable about her character. One of the reasons that [livejournal.com profile] esmerelda_t is dying to read the "lost" Forester novel is that it has a female protagonist. It'll be interesting to see how she is written

I feel a great respect for the women to let sons and husbands go away to sea. I hope I have showed their quiet courage.
Oh yes, they are so often overlooked. But you have definitely reminded us of their enduring presence.
Edited Date: 2012-01-27 05:00 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-01-27 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
Don't even get me started of Marie de G. She makes my brain itch. (Of course, Horatio was not at his best either.) I have sort of erased that whole dogging around episode from my mind. I think of that book as 'the one about Bush's leg.'

Date: 2012-01-27 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Hmmm yes. Marie....not good. Though in her defence, she does get in a great parting shot before Hornblower leaves...
“I don't think that you will ever love anybody, or know what it is to do so."

I'm afraid Flying Colours is never going to top my list of favourite books :/
(deleted comment)

Date: 2012-01-27 05:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Yes! My partner mentioned the part where Jack suddenly realises there are women on his ship! Perhaps Stephen should have checked his eye sight?!

Suzanne Stark's Female Tars is an excellent read. Her research is exemplary and she writes with a rather wry sens of humour. Some of the detail in the first chapter on prostitutes and sailors wives is just staggering.

Date: 2012-01-27 07:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] weeboopiper.livejournal.com
Have you read The Wynne Diaries (Two volumes)? Betsey Wynne married Thomas Francis Fremantle. Her diary entries are a fascinating look at life in the Mediterranean, courtship, and marriage to a naval officer.

Basil Hall also casually mentions the wife of the boatswain of the Alceste in his book Account of a Voyage of Discovery to the West Coast of Corea and the Great Loo-Choo Island in the Japan Sea.

And while she wasn't a naval wife, Basil Hall's sister, Magdalene, married William DeLancey. (Basil Hall had met and hosted DeLancey after the Battle of Corunna.) DeLancey died from injuries sustained during the Battle of Waterloo. If you've seen the movie Waterloo (Christopher Plummer version), she (forget the actress who played her) appears briefly during the ball scene.

Date: 2012-02-10 10:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
I have read about Magdalene and DeLancey but I haven't actually read A Week in Waterloo. It's available from Project Gutenberg, I must download a copy.

I have never come across Betsey Wynne before though, so thank you very much for the recommendation. I'll definitely look up The Wynne Diaries.

Date: 2012-01-27 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevie-carroll.livejournal.com
Fascinating stuff. Hopefully I'll know more after this Thursday.

Date: 2012-02-02 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Did you manage to go? I'm dying to hear all about it!

Date: 2012-02-03 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevie-carroll.livejournal.com
It wasn't quite what I expected, but I still got a lot out of it. I'll write more about it later.

Date: 2012-01-28 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vespican.livejournal.com
Leave it to me to come up with an entirely different slant to this post.

I noticed the name Epervier of the French brig. If I remember correctly, the Royal Navy had a brig of the same name that was taken by the US Navy during the war of 1812. It was lost with all hands after the war, enroute to the US from the Med and the actions against the Barbary Pirates.
Dave

Date: 2012-01-28 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
The Barbary pirates, there is a war which is often overlooked, and in which men (and women,) died.

Funny how many of everyone's ship names were French, or in Latin. (Serapis and Bonne Homme Richard, anyone?)

Then there were the names that were just silly. (The Flirt, for instance, I bet her sailors were popular!) It is strange to me that they did not think it unlucky to change ships names. They all seem to have done it all the time.

Date: 2012-01-28 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vespican.livejournal.com
My understanding is that a captured ship would usually retain its original name unless... the capturing navy already had a ship of that name. Unite became Surprise because the Royal Navy already had a Unite.

Also if the ship's original name had a political significance it might have been changed. The Continental Navy's Hancock (32) became Iris when captured by the Royal Navy. It remained Iris when later taken by the French.

At Trafalgar, there was a Neptune or Neptuno in each of the three fleets, and a Swiftsure in both the English and French contingents.
Dave

Date: 2012-02-10 10:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
And just to make matters even more confusing....When George Cadogan's sloop Cyane was captured by the French frigates L'Hortense and L'Hermione in 1805, a new Cyane was brought into the service. However the original Cyane was recaptured not long after and had to be re-named the Cerf. It took [livejournal.com profile] nodbear and I no end of trouble to get to the bottom of that puzzle when we were going through the Admiralty documents!

Date: 2012-01-28 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vespican.livejournal.com
Speaking of silly names. For those of you that I have sent excerpts from my work, you will find a bit of conversation where Hornblower mentions being given command of Retribution. In revising that scene to not include Hornblower, guess what the name of the prize the new/replacement character (Lt. Rowley) takes command of? (Hint... think dirty!)And the prize is French, not Spanish.
Dave

Date: 2012-02-02 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Guilty as charged. I know nothing about the Barbary Wars. So much to learn!

Then there were the names that were just silly. (The Flirt, for instance, I bet her sailors were popular!)
I love some of those silly ship names :) Fairy is another favourite of mine.

It is strange to me that they did not think it unlucky to change ships names.
They also seem to have been unconcerned about ships being named after previous ships that had come to a bad end. I guess the Admiralty wasn't as superstitious as the seamen!

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