anteros_lmc: (Default)
[personal profile] anteros_lmc


Lord Cochrane and his
unauthorised trousers
I've just started reading my Christmas present from [livejournal.com profile] nodbear, British Naval Dress by Dudley Jarrett, which is a wonderful new addition to my collection of uniform porn. How can you not love a book with the following introductory paragraph?

Both officers and ratings have frequently shown strong individual tastes in matters of dress. Even when regulations became clearer they were apt to be ignored. Captain Lord Cochrane wore bell-bottomed trousers; officer have been known to carry umbrellas when in uniform. Sailors have decorated the seams of their jackets with white tape and embroidered the only visible parts if their underwear with flowers.

This paragraph is illustrated by this lovely mezzotint of Cochrane accompanied by the stern caption:

The wearing of trousers in place of breeches was unauthorized.

Sadly there is no accompanying picture of a sailor in flowery unmentionables.

Date: 2012-03-28 08:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mylodon.livejournal.com
Oh. That's the most wonderful thing to find online of a morning. I now have visions of Archie and Horatio sewing violets on thie drawers.

And the "Unauthorised Trousers". *dances in delight*

Now, when we've all got five minutes (some chance) we should have a ficlet challenge based on unauthorised trousers and flowery knickers.
Edited Date: 2012-03-28 08:14 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-29 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Hehe! Glad you enjoyed :)

I now have visions of Archie and Horatio sewing violets on thie drawers.
Awww bless!

we should have a ficlet challenge based on unauthorised trousers and flowery knickers.
Your wish is my command!

Date: 2012-03-28 09:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ioanite.livejournal.com
Aw man, I'd have loved to see the flowery underwear.

Also, I remember reading in my "Making of Hornblower book" that the captain of the Harlequin dressed his crew up as actual Harlequins (I believe I've mentioned this already, but it seemed like a good time to bring it up again). I wonder if THAT'S in your book.

Seriously, it sounds like an awesome book. Let us know if you find anything cool in it!

Date: 2012-03-29 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Aw man, I'd have loved to see the flowery underwear.
Hehe! I'll bet you would ;) I'll let you know if the Harlequins appear in the book or if there's any other mention of fancy boat crews!

Let us know if you find anything cool in it!
My pleasure!

Date: 2012-03-28 10:06 am (UTC)
ext_565103: (aubrey breasts)
From: [identity profile] amaraal.livejournal.com
If I hadn't added you as a friend already :) I would have done now!
Uniform porn!!! The Royal Navy had the best, don't you agree?
Is there a possibility that you scan something and upload it???
Tell us more about your collection :)
Flowers on their undies = YEAH!

Date: 2012-03-29 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Of course the Royal Navy had the best!! :D

Most of the pictures in British Naval Dress are in black and white but if I come across anything particularly squeeful I'll scan and post :)

Tell us more about your collection :)
The height of Uniform Porn is Amy Miller's Dressed to Kill, which [livejournal.com profile] joyful_molly reviewed here, and I reviewed here. Sadly it is stupidly expensive now a days. However, thanks to the National Maritime Museums fabulous new collections browser you can now see all those pornographic interesting uniform pictures online here.


Edited Date: 2012-03-29 05:59 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-29 07:00 pm (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
Dressed to Kill
*melts into delighted puddles*
Goodness, that book is so very good. I couldn't believe when I saw one copy for 1000Euros. *the mind boggled*

Thanks for the link. :D

Date: 2012-03-29 08:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
*gasp* Have you not seen Dressed to Kill before?! It's obscenely beautiful! It was published by the National Maritime Museum only a couple fofo years ago and they were actually selling off copies for £5 (!) the Christmas before last. I bought several copies for friends at the time. I can't believe what it's selling for now!

Date: 2012-03-30 04:59 am (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
Oh no! I love and cherish my copy, which I bought when the book came out. I was only astonished at the prices it is now fetching. They really should reprint it.

Date: 2012-03-30 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Oh I'm so glad! It would have been a tragedy if you didn't have a copy in your collection! It really is astonishing what it's selling for now. I have no idea why the NMM haven't printed a second edition!

Date: 2012-03-30 11:06 am (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
I guess they never look at used bookshops online to see what some of their books are fetching. *shrugs and shakes head*

Date: 2012-03-30 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
I know! It's daft that they haven't republished it!

*points below* Clever [livejournal.com profile] amaraal has found a reasonably priced hard copy that appears to be still available.

Date: 2012-03-30 09:08 pm (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
I hope a worthy person will soon pick it up.

Date: 2012-03-30 10:41 am (UTC)
ext_565103: (aubrey breasts)
From: [identity profile] amaraal.livejournal.com
Awwwww... I know 'Dressed to Kill'. I found it online as pdf :) 156 MB. The title makes me purrrrrrrrrr! :)
I'm so glad we have the internet. And I adore all people who make this fantastic costumes/uniforms in the movies. All these intricate embroideries... *melts* What makes me gasp most: blue and gold!

Yes, please! If there is anything pornographic adorable a pic would be fine :)

Thanks in advance and 'HUZZAH!' to the Royal Navy!!!!!!

Edit: Found it here:

http://www.buecher.de/shop/englische-buecher/dressed-to-kill/miller-amy/products_products/detail/prod_id/22521546/

'only' 21,95 €... If it's still available.
Edited Date: 2012-03-30 10:49 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-30 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Oh I'm so glad you have a copy of Dressed to Kill! Where did you find the pdf? I wouldn't mind having a digital copy of it. Well done finding a "reasonably" priced hard copy too! Might be worth buying it as an investment!

What makes me gasp most: blue and gold!
There's something about the black neck cloths and white waistcoats that makes my head spin...

Date: 2012-03-30 11:03 pm (UTC)
ext_565103: (aubrey breasts)
From: [identity profile] amaraal.livejournal.com
I searched my eyes out... But here:

https://rapidshare.com/#!download|777dt|277240878|DressToKillRoyalNavy.pdf|163564|R~73A0AE0D0FD154D2F1C112B23F0FBF4F|0|0

it seems to be the one I found back then.

The above mentioned link comes from this one:

http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/history_military/RoyalNavyUniformsGenderSocialStatusMaritimeGreenwichAdmiraltyNelsonTrafalgar.html

No warranty whatsoever :) Maybe it is another book with the same title :)

Date: 2012-03-30 09:09 pm (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
Pdf, where please?

Date: 2012-03-30 10:13 pm (UTC)
ext_565103: (Tom Pullings)
From: [identity profile] amaraal.livejournal.com
On my hard drive :) I found it half-illegally on the net... Can't remember where. If you really need it, I can create another dropbox folder, upload it and invite you. Can take a while... 156 MB and we have a slow internet connection here.

Date: 2012-03-28 01:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
My mother told me that as late as WWII, men would pay to have embroidery on the inside of uniforms-- it was still proper looking when on, but very fancy hanging on a bedpost!

Date: 2012-03-28 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
It occurs to me-- she must have meant underwear. You could not embroider on a uniform without it showing! So... they were still doing it in the USN apparently!

Date: 2012-03-29 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Either way, that is a brilliant story! I love the idea of US navyboys with fancy embroidery on their undercrackers!

Date: 2012-03-28 02:15 pm (UTC)
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)
From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
I am SO going to have to work the embroidered underthings into a story. Given that we've already established that Major M'Lord Edrington does petit-point, it stands to reason he's not the only one with skill!

It'd be funnier with Matthews and Styles, though.

Date: 2012-03-29 03:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
I am sure that Bush could do embroidery if he put his mind to it!

Date: 2012-03-29 03:47 am (UTC)
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)
From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
Yes, but painted sailcloth is faster. And you have to admit the image of Styles with flowery drawers is HILARIOUS!

Date: 2012-03-29 04:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
Big baggy drawers with a flap in the back, embroidered with... roses?

Date: 2012-03-29 06:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Well we all know that Bush was a dab hand when it came to commissioning soft furnishings and crocheted accessories! :D

Date: 2012-03-29 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Well someone aboard Hotspur had a talent for crochet! Perhaps it was Styles? :)

Date: 2012-03-28 03:19 pm (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
Is that book still available and reasonably priced, because ME.WANT!!!

My mind boggles.
*has visions of a flowery Killick, or worse of a flowery Jack*
*sporfles*
...though, come to think of it, Jack A has been known to wear a flowered silk dressing gown with not much underneath in HMS Surprise. You would not be willing to post this in [livejournal.com profile] perfect_duet since Jack is based on Lord Cochrane?

Date: 2012-03-29 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
This book is indeed still available from abebooks in the UK. It sells for about £20, though there is one copy there going for £15 :)

...though, come to think of it, Jack A has been known to wear a flowered silk dressing gown with not much underneath
*blinks* He has?! Pics or it didn't happen! XD

Date: 2012-03-29 06:24 pm (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
*g* Wouldn't we all like to have that! Sorry, no pics, but this excerpt from HMS Surprise where Jack and Stephen have just come aboard again from a bout of swimming which it means that Jack is unlikely to wear anything underneath:
The bell struck; and at the pipe of the bosun's call the hammocks came flying up, close on two hundred of them, to be stowed with lightning rapidity into the nettings, with their numbers all turned the same way; and in the rushing current of seamen Jack stood tall and magnificent in a flowered silk dressing-gown, looking sharply up and down the deck.
The smell of coffee and bacon was almost more than he could bear, but he meant to see this operation through: it was by no means as brisk as he could wish, and some of those hammocks were flabby, dropsical objects.Hervey would have to start using a hoop again.


Btw, TC started using hoops to have all hammocks look shipshape and Bristol fashion

Date: 2012-03-29 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Tall, flowery and magnificent??! *dies laughing*

Compare and contrast with the opening scene of The Commodore:

Captain Sir Horatio Hornblower sat in his bath, regarding with distaste his legs dangling over the end. They were thin and hairy, and recalled to his mind the legs of the spiders he had seen in Central America. It was hard to think about anything except his legs, seeing how much they were forced upon his attention by their position under his nose as he sat in this ridiculous bath; they hung out at one end while his body protruded from the water at the other.

Date: 2012-03-30 05:06 am (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
I guess the gown would be something like heavy silk brocade and not one of those clingy wraps which Stephen might enjoy to see on Jack, who, btw can never look anything but magnificent. ;D

Oh, the poor dear. Why cannot Horatio be happy with and about himself just once? I feel certain that his legs are just right, and his calves shapely. *nods* though this bathtub itself sounds ridiculous. He's better off taking a shower on deck

Date: 2012-03-30 09:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Why cannot Horatio be happy with and about himself just once?
Because then he wouldn't be Hornblower and we couldn't poke fun at him! XD

though this bathtub itself sounds ridiculous. He's better off taking a shower on deck
The commodore agrees with you whole heartedly! Horatio does love a good deck shower. That passage continues...

Hornblower found it irritating to have to take a bath in this fashion, although he tried not to allow it to irritate him, and he strove desperately to dismiss from his mind recollections of thousands of more comfortable baths taken on the deck of a ship, under a wash-deck pump which threw over him unlimited quantities of stimulating sea-water.

Date: 2012-03-30 11:09 am (UTC)
esteven: (Default)
From: [personal profile] esteven
Well, once in a while still means that you could poke fun at him many other times. *sighs* I guess, I'm just used to Jack Aubrey who would never contemplate anything like that

I am so glad to hear of a proof of his good sense.
*nods*

Date: 2012-03-30 08:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
I am so glad to hear of a proof of his good sense.
One thing that can be relied upon is that Hornblower will get his kit off at every available opportunity!!

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] esteven - Date: 2012-03-30 08:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(deleted comment)

Date: 2012-03-28 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
Maybe they had an 18th century version of 'sagging'

Date: 2012-03-28 11:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lady-branwyn.livejournal.com
Could they mean "shirt"?
I vote for the flowery underwear and unauthorized trousers challenge!

Date: 2012-03-29 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eglantine-br.livejournal.com
We have not had a challenge in a while.

Date: 2012-03-29 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
I vote for the flowery underwear and unauthorized trousers challenge!
Done! I will post a challenge prompt to [livejournal.com profile] following_sea later tonight :)

Date: 2012-03-29 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Yes I wondered about that too!! I have visions of sailors with low slung breeches to show off the embroidered waistband of their underpants! XD
(deleted comment)

Date: 2012-03-29 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
ROFL! I can just picture it XD

SURPRISE Knickers could be a new line at Ned "Mainmast" Pellew's lingerie emporium.

Date: 2012-03-29 11:23 pm (UTC)
sid: (Aloft and Alow)
From: [personal profile] sid
*gigglesnorts*

Date: 2012-03-28 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] esmerelda-t.livejournal.com
Bell Bottoms?! The hippie!

Date: 2012-03-28 11:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lady-branwyn.livejournal.com
He's got the right legs for them, though. :)

Date: 2012-03-29 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
He certainly did, didn't he?!

Date: 2012-03-29 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
Did I mention that book was published in 1960?

*waves* at King Richard :)

Date: 2012-03-29 07:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] esmerelda-t.livejournal.com
1960? It's cleary damnable propaganda then! :P

Date: 2012-03-29 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anteros-lmc.livejournal.com
It's degenerate that's what it is!

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